participants: aso, hayama, araya, somiya, (evo) miyakawa, kokeyama, akutsu, 
              kanda, tagoshi, hashizume
minute taker: somiya			  

detchar goal: 
 main goal = gw detection/undetection support
  - veto
  Is this a matter for lcgt alone? (miyakawa)
  LCGT should claim by ourselves (hayama)
  It's LCGT's responsibility (kanda)
  Row data is open, veto data is attached.
  FAP ~ 5 sigma
  
 What is the veto list? (miyakawa)
 It indicates which GW-channel segment is useful (hayama)
 Isn't it attached on the data frame? (kanda)
 We put flags (hayama)
 If we see the veto list, is that all or a part? (miyakawa)
 We use it for the search. ASCII data is provided with GPS time (hayama)

 Calibration accuracy should be categorized to "IFO diagnosis" (somiya)
 Yes, it's given per a run (aso)
 h-of-t is made by the calibration group ex. kawabe-san (aso)
 Real-time calibration accuracy would be good to have (kanda)
 It's hard (aso)

 IFO diagnosis
  - robert schofield (aso)
  - non-trivial noise hunting, dirty jobs (aso)
  - it's probably outside the scope of detchar (kanda)
  - why don't we make a routine of something like tapping actuators
    systematically or so (miyakawa)
  - glitches found in the detchar should be fixed systematically (aso)
  - detchar diagnosis and IFO-side diagnosis are different and correlated (aso)
  - both side people should belong to both (aso)
  - it shall be discussed later (kanda) 

 Environment monitor

 GIF (araya)
  - long-term low-freq measurement
  - response of rocks, monitoring entire tunnel
  - for a long run, those are also important for lcgt
  - Is this seismometer a Lyon-type? (kanda)
  - This is a 3mHz one (araya)
  - How about over 10Hz? (kanda)
  - Above 10Hz, it's local. For 3mHz, having two is fine (araya)

 p.8 = araya, p.9 = kokeyama, p.10 = hayama

  - need various sensors depending on freqs
  - low-freq monitor on ground, mid-freq monitor on chambers

  - VIS use approximated data above 1Hz
  - GIF has data up to 50Hz

  - metal cable up to 200m (araya)
  - the more daq, the shorter metal cable (araya)
  - fiber cable up to 500m (miya); optical fiber terminal every 500m
  - location shall be discussed with dgs and gif (miya)
  - [AI] on the way in the tunnel, daq should be placed so we need
         some rooms maybe every 500m, maybe a box below the duct as
         a big room couldn't be built later.
  
  - oxygen monitor (akutsu) -> [AI] ohashi?

  - there is a room in the end station and daq and some monitors are 
    in there (kokeyama)
  - no change for aligo? (kanda)
  - no (kokeyama)
  - lcgt will have temperature gradient so more temperature monitors
    will be necessary (kanda)
  - lcgt should have sensors near each chamber (miyakawa)
  - sas is 2-story so we need different monitor (akutsu)
  - can we put all the cables between 2 floors thru the bore hole? (aso)

p.9-p.10
  - magnetometers are added according to ligo
  - local particle meter will not be connected to daq (miyakawa)
  - is the radiometer a piano line? (miyakawa)
  - radio not from outside but maybe from kamiokande (aso)

p.2-4
  - daq sharing between dgs and gif
  - gif vacuum will be built at the same time as lcgt but completed a 
    bit early (araya)
  - gif monitor signals will be split and shared to lcgt (araya)
  - some sensors for lcgt do not belong to gif; sensors that belong to
    an instrument (araya)
  - shall we buy the sensors together? (miyakawa)
  - suggestion of the sensors can be done by gif, then lcgt people will
    discuss them and install the sensors

 - environment signal will be in the same form as GW (aso)
 - epics (eg. vac level) will be tranlated to frame signals (aso)
 - PLC (to be translated to epics) is a slow daq (aso)

What is the things that lcgt should provide to GIF? (aso)
 - 1 pps
 - IRIG-B -> to be purchased from Columbia
   (slave machines locally create the IRIG-B signal)
 
p.14
 - would we have sufficient physical sensors? (miyakawa)
 - yes (hayama)
 - how do we set up software? (miyakawa)
 - it's even not determined in aligo as is shown in p.14 (hayama)
 - do you use DMT? (aso -> hayama)
 - i'm about to (hayama); p.16
 - 30 ppl in ligo
 - is software flexible? (araya)
 - if the output is the same, it won't be a problem (hayama)

 - what will we need for iLCGT? (miyakawa)
 - what's the science goal for iLCGT? (hayama)
 - we cannot expect much science for iLCGT (kanda)
 - iLCGT is a good test for detchar (somiya)
 - detchar should do as much as possible for bLCGT and should
   be tested at iLCGT (aso, kanda)
 - detchar will be useful to improve sensitivity (kanda)

 - how have the experimentalist people touched software?
 - i haven't touched dmt (aso, miyakawa); it's written in C++
 - on contrary, people who can write a program can easily join 
   the work; maybe good to ask for a help to people in korea or 
   china (aso)

 - there will be more that should be listed (miyakawa)
 - these are what I listed so there will be more (hayama)

On-site or off-site?

  - pre-process server cpu requirement should be reconsidered (kanda)
  - alert doesn't include veto information (hayama)
  - if we include the veto, the alert will be delayed
  - on-site is necessary anyway (kanda)
  - sending the alert is useful to EM only after multiple gw detections 
    but it can happen that we are told that supernova be found and asked
    about GW. (kanda)

Related groups

  - sensor budget?
  - budget balance?
  - a list with rough estimate is necessary for detchar (kanda)
  - [AI] collect the opinions of other subsystems

DetChar -> a part of MIF

  - DGS cannot deal with science now (miyakawa)
  - detchar is the terminal of data processing and front-end of daq
    so we shall all work together (kanda)
  - name? DC? DetC?

[AI] list a rough estimate of the budget for DetChar, by the end of Jan
[AI] schedule/milestone of DetChar, by the end of Jan
[AI] sensor list -> Araya-san; 
      sensor type/ this year
      sensor quantity/ next year

  - can we buy PC by saisentan?
  - it's not as expensive as \100M, probably \20M (hayama)

  - how many channel do we need? (miyakawa)

Next meeting : sometime in Feb